conversation ABOUT TRUTHThis is a conversation between Master and an old friendthat She met in the Himalayas when She was searching for the Truth.This friend is now a fellow practitioner of the Quan Yin Method.A marvelous affinity which began in the snowy sacred mountainsis now continuing at the Costa Rica Center. This fellow practitionerhad studied with many famous Masters in various parts of the world,and has practiced many methods. Touched by her desire for theTruth and eagerness for Knowledge, the Supreme Master Ching Haiwas naturally inspired and spoke freely without reservation. Theeloquent dialogue of questions and answers between them was indeed"The Conversation about Truth".
Q. If there is a person in this world, a person whofeels very bad physically. Can that soul who feels so bad physicallytake another body, the body of another person like a transplantof bodies?
M.What for? To suffer more?
Q. No. Maybe that person is doing very well, a verygreat job and the others want that person to continue in thatjob.
M.Nobody needs anybody that desperately. Nobody is so important.Yes. Even if you don't have a Master, another Master will come.Yeah! But probably you won't like it. (laugh) It is just thatyou're used to with the similar face and change another face,you would say, "No, not that one." (laugh) Ah!That'sthe only problem. That's why everybody keeps waiting for Jesus.Yeah. They think if another messiah comes he has to look exactlylike him in the picture. If somebody introduces Master Ching Hai.They say, "No".
Q. Why does everybody have a different form of body?For example the faces are different. What does the face mean?What does the face of the people represent?
M.Do you think everyone should look alike? Then this is too boring.At least you never fall in love, and no babies are born. That'sthe difference. That's at least one of the reasons for the differentfaces. Okay? Yeah. You would never be born if your parents lookedthe same.
Q. I would like to know what's the meaning of the "face",in a spiritual life.
The Attractiveness of an EnlightenedMaster M.Nothing. Only the atmosphere. But usually most of the people whenthey practice, well they are very bright in the appearance. Butthe atmosphere is important. People would like to be around thatperson who practices well. Not the face. (Master hums) Okay? Becauseif you are to come to see Miss World 1970, for example, and thepeople tell you to stick around her all the time and look at herall the time, (laugh) you would not do that. Understand? You wouldget bored after a while. You will notice even the most beautifulpeople after we look intensely at their face for sometime we getvery' tired. We get tired and we want to rest. But I know someso-called masters, some masters. They don't look very beautifulor handsome but people just keep staring at them and they neverget tired.Yeah! Sometimes they just walk around all day long justto wait for one glance, one glimpse of the Master. Uh? Or theytravel many miles just to see the Master and when they leave,they feel very bad. Okay. That's it? Why you ask this question?
Q. Because sometimes I can see people have a very goodlight, like You. This means it is coming from Your soul and Ican see from Your face You give me peace. I am very grateful toYou be-cause I am no good but You love me so much, thank you.
M.What is the difference between My face and other people's face?Similar no? Of course not. I mean, of course I couldn't look likeyou fellow practitioners but it makes no difference what kindof face. It is the love that emanates from a person, not the face,okay.
Q. That was my question and I wanted everybody to knowthis.
M.Yeah!
Q. You don't see the faces You only see the heart.
M.Yeah! Oh I see. You want to see My heart? (laugh) (sigh) Thereare some Masters who are very old. They have creases and lines,you know, wrinkles all over their face and not anything attractivebut people like them, because of their practicing merit, the lovethat they have. Uh huh! Some people say, because My voice is verynice, or My face is very nice, My eyes are very beautiful, sopeople like Me. It's not true, because I have some disciples whoare blind, who are deaf. They always come, every week when I amthere; even on retreats, seven days. They never see My face, butthey see inside and what they describe is just exactly how yousee Me now. Of course inside is more beautiful huh? (laugh) Yeah?
Q. Master Charan Singh he already took maha samahi.He was a very big Master in Beas in India. He used to initiateall the people except the ones who were blind.
M.Uh why?
Q.So that is what I wanted to ask you because you said you haveblind disciples.
M.I have blind disciples. Everybody knows it. Yes it is the rule.It is the general rule that a person must be, uh the five sensesmust be perfect, in order to be initiated by a Master. That isthe general rule since ancient time. Buddha also said that. Butsomebody must initiate them no?
Q. One day a disciple wanted his mother initiated andthe mother was blind so he didn't tell the Master. He asked himuh, "Please Master Charan Singh my mother, can she come andbe initiated?" "Yes, yes, you bring her I will initiateher." So when he brought the mother the Master saw that shewas blind, and he said, "But I told you I can not initiateblind people, so I can not initiate your mother." The disciplegot very, very upset and he said, "Please Master, please,please, this is my mother please do it." So the Master dida miracle and during the initiation he gave sight to the mother,and initiate her. Meanwhile she could see.
M.Uh huh, meanwhile only.
Q. Only meanwhile
M.... and afterwards.
Q. And afterwards the blindness returned.
M.Some of the people who came for a lecture also, uh got their sightback in Taiwan, but without coming for initiation. They did comefor initiation afterward but they wrote a letter or they toldthe story that they, their sight was restored during the lecture.
Q. And it stayed like that?
M.And it stayed like that. She had been blind since childhood, overtwenty years.
Q. But for example, when you initiate them if they areblind, do You initiate them anyhow?
M.Anyhow! They got visions all the same. They saw the Master inside.(laugh)
Q. They saw the Master here.
M.And this person always feels when I come near. The blind person,one of the persons, she always feels when I am around. She smilesand I know. I tap her shoulder and she knows. So we feel veryclose.
Q. Is it because, the Masters they don't initiate becausethe Masters can catch some of the karma of that individual?
M.Yes.
Q. You see. I thought the reason why he did not initiatethe blind people was because he was saying that that's the worstkarma a person can have.
M.Oh! There is worse karma than that!
Q. Worse than that! Like what?
M.To be blind physically is better than to be blind spiritually.Someone who doesn't see the Master but recognizes the greatnessis better than someone who sees the Master and does not know.
Q. But for example, when You initiate the blind person,do You catch anything of the sins of these people.M.I catch all the time.
Q. All the time.
M.I catch when people just pray at home. I catch it when peopleknow about My name. I catch it when people know about My story.I catch anywhere. I catch when I see people.
Q. So how do You dissolve this karma?
M.That's My job. (laughter) Wait until you become a Master and thenI'll tell you. Now its difficult,to understand. I do it by spiritualdiscipline, by the merits from My billion, trillions of yearsof practice, by the incredible physical endurance, and I do itby the boundless love. Okay.
Q. Yes, thank you.
M.In the Buddhist discipline also, when somebody, the five sensesare not in order, one of the five senses is not in order, theBuddha... he is not accepted in order of the Buddha. There weremany other kinds of pre-conditions to be initiated in Buddhism,when the Buddha was alive. But I've vowed to save the worst. Sonobody comes to Me without hope. Among our disciples there arethe worst people you could imagine. Even the Buddhas in the tendirections could not rescue them.
Q. Yes. Lord Buddha told us that there are five unpardonablesins. Now these sins for example are if we kill a Buddha, anotherBuddha.
M.Yeah, if we kill a Buddha or make a Buddha bleed.
Q. Right, or arhat,we kill an arhat or father. If wekill our father or our mother, or we split the sang ha.
M.Or kill our father or .. mother. Yeah, we make trouble in this...
Q. He said that these are unpardonable.
M.Yes.
Q. Then you accept these type also?
M.Also
Q. Then how...?
M.Otherwise who accepts them.
Q. Right nobody would.
M.Yes.
Q. Huh, but then how can these people... then... ifthe Buddha said unpardonable.
M.I use My love to transform them.
Q. Then this is perhaps Your Christian side becauseLord Jesus, He was always all forgiving, even the worst sinners,the criminals. Now, do You have to take on the karma of thesepeople?
M.Yes. The law of karma has to be respected. But when the Mastertakes on the karma it's not like when the disciple takes on thekarma. For example, when Jesus was persecuted, yeah, nailed onthe cross, then many of His disciples or followers would be forgiventhe sins. But if you pick anybody on the street and tell themnow, you will be nailed for everybody else's sins, nobody elsewould get forgiven. Nobody had any benefit. Understand? The bodyof the Master is different from the body of other people, eventhough it looks the same. For example, all the cars look similar.Yes, but the Mercedes car and the Volvo car have different structureand different endurance. Now can you imagine at the time of initiation,when the Master has to initiate thousands or hundreds of people.He has, the Master has to house at least enough blessing powerto give to each one. Understand? To give to, at least, to hundredspersons or thousands persons depending on the number. Now whenone person receives, only his individual share, he has alreadyopened the eye of wisdom and can see the visions and the starsand the heavens and hells and everything. And that force mustbe strong to clear all the karma of ten thousands of years ofthat individual, one, alone. And the Buddha said only one person'skarma or sins, if it had shape, the whole universe could not containone person's sins, one person's karma. In order to burn all thesins and karma of one individual, including all the five generations,at least, of him, you know how much force it takes. If not hecould not hear the sound, he could not see the light because heis burdened and locked with his own karma. Now all that forcehas to go through the body of the Master in order to come out.And when She initiates thousands of people then the force mustbe more. Then the ordinary person cannot house this power. Evengood power will make you collapse. Understand? Just like in orderfor this light to shine it has to contain so much voltage of electricity.This bulb might look similar to the other bulb but it has differentstructure. It can contain more power, more electric power. Inorder to give you such a brilliant light. He has Himself to beable to stand this kind of electric voltage. Yeah. So thereforethe body of the Master is no doubt different. But most of thetime the Masters do not mention these things, unless when asked.Most of the Masters are very humble. And it is not necessary totalk about things when it is not the time. Understand? And also,it has to be the right audience.
Q. Tell me another thing. Lord Buddha used to teachat four different levels according to the people, the audience,but Lord Jesus used to always teach at the some level. He neversaid that He had different types of teachings.
M.What four levels?
Q. There are four types of individuals. There is theone which is very very developed. Then according to the intelligenceof the people, He gave different teachings.
An Enlightened Master's DifferentWay of Teaching Inside. M.Yes, yes, that is inside only. The initiation is the same. Internally,the Master teaches each one differently, and even the closestfriend would not know. Even husband and wife, they have differentteachings inside. Not only four levels, four thousands level,four millions, etc... yeah!
Q. So, Jesus would do the same?
M.Yes same. Jesus didn't have as much time to teach. He had onlythree and a half years and He got nailed. Also you must know thatwhen Jesus was giving the teaching it was very' difficult. Thepolitical sensitivity at that time was preventing Him and Hisdisciples, to be free in the preaching of the doctrine. Anybodyfamous, was envied by the church and emperor's government, atthat time. And you must know at that time, you know, the spirituallevel of the people was very low. In all the churches, they slaughteredall the time, just to offer, to make offering; slaughtered allthe animals. And the smoke rose to heaven and blackening all thechurches' ceilings and all the hands of the priests were bloody.And the terrible odor filled the many comers of the sky of Egypt,and Palestine etc...
Q. What about the Buddha, tell me.
M.But the Buddha... But the Buddha he was lucky. He was born inIndia where the spiritual discipline was already strong and mostpeople were vegetarians and they worshiped the saints. And thepolitical rivalry at that time wasn't very dangerous. Also Buddhawas born a prince. Everybody knew that he forsook the whole kingdom.So no king would imagine that he would try to become a king andmake a rival out of Him, uh with Him, with them. But Jesus wasn'tvery aristocratic at the background, and there was a rumor thatthere was somebody who would be born and be king of the Jews.So everybody was scared that Jesus would make a revolution andthen become king of the Jews. So the Roman government was verynervous. You see you must also look at the historical background,to understand why Jesus and Buddha were different the way theywere, and why Christianity developed the way it had and Buddhismspread out the way it had. That is the mundane level. Okay. Thereare other levels that we must consider also like the arrangementof the heavens and the spiritual understanding of the people atthat time. Okay. But Jesus was lucky when he was nailed on thecross; he died in glory. He died at the pitch of his career. Shouldhe have lived longer he would probably have been made to suffermany more things that... below his dignity even.
Q. Now for example you see Jesus always said that hewas just fulfilling. Whatever he did, whatever words he said,whatever his actions were, he was only fulfilling the scriptures.
M.I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill. Well, every Masterdoes the same. When they come they only explain the scripturesmore clearly for the people. Yes. Without a truly enlightenedMaster, not many people understand what the scriptures are allabout. You see a lot of misunderstanding. You know all the scriptures,in most of the scriptures the writing is all forbidding meat-eating,but you see the churches from very high to the low, bishops andthe followers, everyone eats meat and drinks wine. God said, "Whotold you to kill all these she goats, bullocks and he bullocksto offer to me? Your hands are full of innocent blood. You shouldstop all these sins, otherwise when you pray, I will turn my headaway, won't listen to you. Repent and stop,otherwise I will notforgive you." Is that not so? Yeah. If God forbids even usto kill to offer to Him, how could we dare to eat ourselves andoffer to ourselves? No? It's illogical. Yeah. Ask all the Pope'sofficials to answer you this one question alone. One sentenceonly, don't need to talk the whole Bible. Everyone is spirituallyblind without a living Master. Therefore to be blind physicallyis nothing. I consider these people, who coma to Me blind to bevery, very, very enlightened indeed, better than millions outsidewho have eyes but could not see. Therefore the Bible says, "Seeand you see, but you do not perceive; hear and you hear, but youdo not understand." After initiation everything becomes clearerto each initiate. They wouldn't have known it before. That iscalled "illumination", yeah, "enlightenment".We are enlightened. We know the truth, because the Master hasshed light on the truth, on the unrevealed truth in each Bible,in each scripture and let us know the truth inside. Even so simplelike the sentence I just mentioned about the Bible, but how manyChristians know? How many of them know? Let alone understand,They read it everyday. They read the Bible everyday. And in thechurch the priest knows the Bible by heart. They must, no, inorder to pass the exam. No? But they will not pass the exam inheaven, if they do the contradictory things, with the Bible. "Meatfor the belly and belly for the meat, and God will destroy bothmeat and the belly."(comment and laughter.)
Women are Degraded Blindly Q. And Master, what would you say about the Bible andthe Dharmapada, they, both of them, they talk about women. Weare both women so this is quite an important subject. In the DharmapadaLord Buddha mentions that He did not want women to enter the order.
M.I don't blame Him. Women are dangerous. Can you imagine, can youimagine the whole sangha all bachelors, all men with beauty andstrong bodies and physical sexual drive with the physical body.Now, enters a few women. What do you think? It's already difficultenough for them to struggle alone and there now comes some temptation.What do you think? It is even more difficult. But anyhow, theBuddha was also considering the social custom of India at thattime; also the difficulties in the sangha because they alwayshad to move around under very difficult conditions and harsh conditions,and a woman probably could not bear it. Even some men could notbear it never mind women. Some of the monks when they just followMe they just say, "I cannot catch, cannot catch up, I cannotcatch up with Master. It is too much. It is to fast. It is toomuch." They all complain but after a while they all get usedto it. It can be harsh sometimes. When I was in Philippines. Therewere a few monks and a few lay people with Me. Including one manand one woman newly arrived, newly followed, that were new practitioners.The man slept all day long and the woman could barely catch up.Now whenever I turned around and asked for woman.... There wasalso one uninitiated man around in the group . He was a politicalman because I had to deal with the Vietnamese refugees, at thattime; so we had to work with some uninitiated political persons.And he was scared seeing the way I moved (Master pants to shouldhe was out of breath.) . He was huffing, huffing like that. Andone day I asked him, about that woman. I said, "Where, whereis that, such and such, the woman ? Where is My woman disciple?"He said, "Dead. "(Master laughs) "She is half dead."I said, "What! I am leaving and then she didn't even cometo the airport to send Me off. What kind of disciple is that?What is she doing? Nothing much." And he sighed very miserablyand he said, "Oh Master, she is just an ordinary woman."(Master laughs) I said, "What you mean? What do you meanshe is just an ordinary woman? What about Me? I didn't reallyunderstand I didn't mean to make difficulty. I was so surprised.I wanted to tell her something to tell her to do something forMe when I left, hut she wasn't there, so I was very, you know,kind of excited. And he said, "Oh! nobody can do the wayyou do." Straight like this. (Master laughs)" You'renot, not a woman. You're not from this world. Nobody can catchup with You." He made it straight in My face like this. Hesaid, "Not even a man can catch up with You never mind awoman." And I was so startled I had to think, I had to think.So I couldn't say anything. I still keep thinking ever since,whether it is true.
Q. You know one day, I was in the Himalayas in Jhotirmath.The Shankaracharia is there. He is the Pope of the Hindus. Youknow a woman, a female body is not allowed to stay there. I wasin my sanyasi (monk's) clothes, no hair and they thought thatI was a male.
M.So they allowed you.
Q. So they allowed me and I didn't tell them anything.I just played the game with them. I lived together with all theother monks, we had lunch together. My voice sounds like a male,I hit them on the back so I behaved like a man and I was totallyaccepted. When I went to take a shower I put my feet on the doorlike this so the other monks would not open it and find out thatI am a nun and not a monk. Now it was around six o'clock and wehad been with the Shankaracharia for several hours talking andhe was giving us a lecture. To me he seemed like a very enlightenedbeing. Then naturally I felt he was very enlightened this supremePope of the Hindus. But then I heard a female voice coming fromdownstairs. At that time we were all on pilgrimage at Jhotirmathand there were thousands of pilgrims. This nun was of the SaraswatiMath which is the same Math (order) as the Shankaracharia. Therewere several men there and she was the only female. She was answeringthem because they were attacking her. She had bleeding feet becauseshe was walking in the pilgrimage without shoes. She was answeringthem because they were kicking her out of that place. They weretreating her in a very vicious way.
M.Very vicious. I know, I know, I know. They really hate woman.They think women are dangerous. But they do not know the reason,they're, not logical. They just blindly follow the rule and anywoman that comes there will be beaten and kicked out. They don'tcare what happens to you. They just have to keep the rule. That'sit. They keep the precepts blindly without considering, no understanding.
Q. With no understanding and without following the teachingsof the Shankaracharia. The first Shankaracharia said, " Weare all one."
M.They think a woman will pollute their order and make them impure,by their presence alone. They feel a woman is inferior to a man.
Q. They feel that she is the devil. They have reachedthat point.
M.Yes.
Q. So naturally they treated her like that, with contemptand no compassion at all, because it was evening already and freezingcold with snow. The nun couldn't walk any more because she wasalready exhausted and bleeding.
M.Yes, fanatic.
Q. Fanatic you know. And with her there was anothermonk, also of the Saraswati Math, but he didn't say anything.So she was standing there like with twenty men against her. SoI just couldn't stay comfortable with the monk's bed and sleepovernight there, then see the Shankaracharia at nine o'clock inthe morning like we had arranged. I couldn't do it. I had to defendher because I am also a female body. So I came out.
M.Youwere there just for that.
Q. Just for that only.
M.Just to teach them a lesson.
Q. To teach them a lesson and I knew they all thoughtthat I had a monk's body.
M.It was arranged so that you be there.
Q. God made this, you know.
M.Otherwise nobody could be as blind as you figured, to take youfor a monk; a "monkey" maybe.
Q. Monkey yes, but a monk! They all thought that I wasa monk, all of them. They all believed I was a monk, only male.They never thought me to be a female. So naturally, you see Ididn't want to deceive them. I just played whatever they put onme and continued playing it. So naturally when this woman cameout screaming for help. I went to her defense. I told all of thesemonks that all of them had come from a female body. You were bornfrom a female. And that, I couldn't really understand, becausein Hinduism they really venerate the Mother. The Divine Motheris very important to them.
M.Yes, yes, yes.
Q. But they would not give her any space, not even closeto the bathroom in any sheltered place. We were on a high hill.That meant that she had to walk down that hill with bleeding feetand half dead, all that hill.
M.Then they worship the Divine Mother.
Q. They do. The Divine Mother, they do. But they didnot see this in this poor nun. So naturally, I felt responsibleto take care of this nun and get a place for her where she couldsleep and eat. So I told them the truth, that I didn't have amale body but a female body, also.
(Master said," Precept is to protect thepractitioners. We shouldn't attach to it without flexibility andthen cause harm.")
M.So now you keep your precept, at least....
Q. To speak the truth, yes. So then you know I tookthis poor nun with me as well as the other monk of the SaraswatiMath. The people, the other men were horrified, and I told themthat I wouldn't see the Shankaracharia.
M.Horrified.
Q. Yes, horrified. And I told them that if the Shankarachariataught us that we are all one, then we also have to show thisin our acts. Then with the other monk we took this poor nun. Youknow it was all filled up, the whole place, with thousands ofpilgrims. Can you guess where we got a place for this nun whois a Hindu nun? It was with the Sikhs.
M.What? Oh! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Q. The Sikhs. You know the Hindus and the Sikhs werefighting and killing each other.
M.The Sikhs accepted them when there was no other place.
Q. The Sikhs were the only ones who opened the doorfor the Hindu nun. Then I saw the absurdity of religion.
M.Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Only love that counts; not religion.Sikhs are fine individuals.
Q. They are beautiful. I spent time with them and studiedwith Sikh saints.
M.Yes, Hindu people are also fine individuals from what I have seen,but there are also some fanatics like what you have seen.
Q. Yet there are other saints, other Hindu saints whodon't make a difference between a male and a female. But you seeit is difficult to find a female saint. You are the second oneI have met in my life, because they are not there. It's alwaysmale bodies who take the sainthood.
There's Neither Man nor Woman inthe Kingdom of God M.They are stronger, so they took all the places. Woman can notfight with men, so they give up. Also, woman normally don't havea big ego. If some people have so big, a great competition goingon, she would rather say, "Okay, then you sit." Womenare trained, in the family, to take the second place, also inthe saint kingdom. Males are normally very aggressive and haveego, a big ego. No wonder they occupy all the seats even the saintseats. That's what happens. All the women have done great serviceto mankind. Without woman no male was ever born and after theyare born they continue to attack woman and degrade woman; afterwoman has carry them, fed them, and nourished them, and educatedthem. Anyhow that's the battle of the ego. In the Kingdom of Godthere is no male,no female. Okay. I feel like a female when Iwant to feel like a female and I feel like a male when I wantto feel like a male.
Q. True, I do the same.
M.According to the situation.
Q. Yes.
M.And the necessity of the moment. Otherwise I am neither male norfemale. If I am a male, I couldn't be Buddha. If I am a femaleI couldn't be Buddha. If I am a female I couldn't be a Buddhaeither because if you are fixed in a frame, you couldn't be Buddha.You have to be flexible.
Q. But do you know, they have said that there have beenso many Buddha's and they are all male. There hasn't been onefemale. They are all male Buddha names.
M.You didn't read the Lotus Sutra? the Buddhist Lotus Sutra? Whenthe Buddha was alive. There was a Bodhisattva called Manjusri.When all the Bodhisattvas assembled together, they asked Manjusri,"Ah, you have been teaching all over place. Has anybody becomeBuddha under your teaching?" Manjusri said, "Yes, yes,there was one little female dragon. She became Buddha. She wasonly eight years old." So that is a curse on all males. Nomale ever became Buddha so young, including Shakyamuni Buddha.They have to be over thirty, in a male body and in a human body.That little dragon girl, eight years old became Buddha. They playjokes sometimes. Now if a little dragon girl can become Buddhawhy couldn't I, why couldn't I become a Buddha? Yes. If she'sonly eight years old how much time could she have had to practice?At the most is eight years, yeah. And she could become Buddhaalready. I am over thirty years, forty. How can I not become Buddha?Illogical! So you see they,they are fighting with themselves.Yeah! I don't care about the scriptures even. Because at one time,at one point, Buddha spoke to different disciples, and at theother time he spoke to a different group of disciples. Oh! Hesaid many things. And some of the scriptures were not even spokenon earth, therefore the levels are different. For example, thescripture of the Earthstore Buddha, Bodhisattva. It was spokenin heaven. When we open the sutra it immediately introduced thatthe Buddha went to such and such heaven and all the Bodhisattvasassemble there together. Okay. And the disciples, the advanceddisciples went over there and heard everything, recorded it, cameback, wrote it again down. Therefore, how can we explain the differencesor sometimes the paradoxes between the scriptures. It is becausethe Buddha taught the earth people differently, and taught heavenpeople differently, and taught the Bodhisattvas differently. Thereare many scriptures, were not spoken on earth, like the FlowerGallon Scripture; not about the earth.
Q. The Heart Sutra.
M.Well, that is another thing. The Heart Sutra the Buddha spoketo the uh... to one disciple only, to Sariputra.
Q. Oh, Sariputra! So... because he was the one who couldunderstand what He was saying.
M.Uh, huh. Okay. So everybody else just catch it and then read aloudand then, and how you say, recite it everyday without knowinganything. It's not the level of Sariputra - the people.
Q. It is like when I started to study the Lotus SutraI couldn't understand it either.
M.Oh, it's very easy.
Q. Difficult, difficult.
M.It's easy now.
Q. Yes, yes, yes.
M.You read it again.
Q. Okay, I will try.
M.I often mention the Lotus Sutra especially the chapter of QuanYin Bodhisattva.
Q. Tell us.
M.If you understand Chinese it would have been clear, you'd be clearabout it. I cannot tell again the same thing. It's in a differentlanguage.
Q. Yeah, tell us, tell us, tell us.
M.No, I am not in the mood now. It has to be in the right time.It has been recorded in Chinese, especially this time, in theretreat. Why don't you ask someone to explain it to you in Spanish.When the retreat video or tapes come out, you explain that partfor them. (Master instructed one of the practitioners) Well, youcould ask Me what you don't understand. What you don't understandyou could ask Me.
Q. For example, you know once Buddha was asked by aman who believed in God if there is a God, another man who didn'tbelieve in God, if there is a God, and then the Bodhisattva wassitting there also waiting for an answer. Then Lord Buddha...
M.gave three different answers.
Q.... three different answers.
M.Is that right?
Q. Right yeah! So he acted like a mirror in a way buthe never gave an answer. Explain. Please explain.
M.Tell Me what answer you don't understand. Ask Me and I'll answer.
Q. You know the first man who believed, He just answeredwhat the man already believed. He said "Yes, there is a God."To the one who didn't believed He answered," There is noGod." So He contradicted the first answer. (M. the third) To the Bodhisattva of course, Hedidn't talk at all.
The Reality of God M.This was very compassionate. He should have beaten him, beatenhim. Yeah! Fancy entering Bodhisattvahood already and still askingthat silly question. Understand? For the man who believed thereis God. He was so firm in his faith, and that so-called God comfortedhis life and kept his life in order and disciplined. Thereforethe Buddha did not want to break that pattern without having thetime to build a new image of God for him. For example, I alsoalways mention about God. If people believe in God, and they keeptheir life pure and disciplined and also meditate on God, thenwhy should I say there is no God. It is no good for them. It confusesthem and breaks everything that they ever cherished and builtup; and they base their life on it. Okay. And for the one whobelieved that there is no God, probably that man was enlightened.You know, he knows there's no such God as we imagine God. Butwe have to be enlightened, to know that God is a force of power,love and wisdom. It's not the so-called God that most people believe.You know the imagination of human beings; there is no such God.That's what he meant. The second man meant that there is no suchGod. But the Buddha of course understood what he meant and understoodhis level, so he confirmed it. Yes, yes, no God. When that personalready understood what God is, means it is not a personal kindof person, or somebody who you imagine would do this and thatfor you at your request, and things like that, then the Buddhajust confirmed it. He said, "Okay, you are fine. That's good."That doesn't mean the Buddha is an atheist. It's just that Hetruly understood what God is. Not simply a norm but the true God.A God without having to say, God. Do you understand? A wisdom,a loving power and all compassionate.
Q. The universal, not one person not the single person.
M.Yes , yes, not the God like most people think.
Q. I believe it.
M.And the third , the Bodhisattva, of course he shouldn't have askedthis silly question, if he called himself a Bodhisattva!
M.Yes, okay. Anything else. Oh! yes, yeah well, the Bodhisattvadid say , "Why did you answer the first man yes and the secondman no? " Silly question of course. Yeah ! First it had nothingto do with him. It's not his business whether the Buddha saidyes or no. Yeah! He should have understood. Anything else. Youare clear?
Q. Yes. Now we look at Jesus. We see that Jesus totallypenetrates the old scriptures of the Jews and he becomes partof that message of the messiah.
M.Come on, you are finished?
Q. So when I look at the Jews and then I question myself.Lord Jesus knew he had to die the way he died, because he wentonce to ask God, "Please Lord can you take this cup awayform me?" He didn't want to die like that.
M.Means, can you take this bitter cup from me? He didn't want todrink that; or that is the human part of any Master. I would askthe same thing, if I were to be crucified. I ask the same thingwhen God demands Me to do something that I don't like to do; Ido it at the end. The Master does many things superhumanly andendures every situation, and has infinite patience and love. Butdoesn't mean the Master loves to do anything or everything. Wellthey are scared too. They don't like it too; but they have todo it. If they love to do everything, then what is the value oftheir sacrifice? Understand?
Q. Yes I understand
M.For example you love money very much. You care about it, and youearn a lot money because .... you want... you work hard for money.But when necessary you give it to someone. Not because you don'tlike the money. If you don't like money, why do you work so hard?But because you had to do it for the sake of other people. Thereforethe money you offer is even more valuable, because you like it.If you give something away that you don't like or you wanted toget rid of... then what ... what is the point of talking aboutit?
Q. But why would God want Jesus to die the way he died?
The Reason for a Master's Body M.Otherwise His disciples would not be cleansed of the sins. Thebody of the Master is for two reasons. First, for the disciplesof the physical world to be able to see. They couldn't see theastral body of the Master. Second, the body of the Master is forsacrifice. It is to receive all the things that the disciple hasto get rid of, to deposit the sins of the disciples. And thento be... has to be cleansed out. For example ... you know thegarbage collector. First they have to collect... they have tobring the garbage up to their body. No? They have to use theirhands to take the garbage can and then put on the car. And thenafterward, dump them into the sea or in the garbage area. Butmeanwhile their body must be dirty and smell of garbage. The garbagewill not stay with them, the smell will not stay forever . Butthey have to wait until they go home and wash it, and have timeto wash it. At least , when they fetch the garbage , the garbageis with them , even just for just five minutes or five seconds.Understand?
Q. The Buddha also had His disciples, but he didn'thave to die like that.
M.There are some reasons . First, the Buddha was in India. Indiawas ... a country of holiness. For many thousands of years peoplewere vegetarians, and reading scriptures, and practicing, andworshiping the saints. They are pure in the heart. Second, theBuddha also suffered. but differently, mentally, yeah! One dayhe couldn't stand it. He left all the disciples and went to thejungle alone, for three months. Of course the Masters don't oftenmention about the inner suffering, but there is. It is there.No Master escapes it. And sometimes the inner suffering is sogreat, too much, it surfaces on the body like a very unreasonablesickness or something like that, or outside attack, or criticism.You see, the inner suffering is worse than the outer suffering.It's worse than hell... sometimes. Sometimes, when the Masteris smiling, or making jokes, or dancing, or eating, even withthe disciples, nobody knows what's going on inside. The Masteroften suffers behind closed door. You remember Milarepa?
Q. Oh, yes I do.
M.Even he didn't have that many disciples. He didn't have that manydisciples . He wasn't that famous at that time and he hid himselfin the Himalaya caves . He didn't even go in the cities and makehimself available to lecture in open public Only some came tohim by word of mouth. And you know, even at that time, to go tothe Himalayas to see him, this was an incredible thing even; sonot many people could do that. You know how inaccessible the Himalayaregions are? So you can imagine not many people came to see him.Even then he suffer from poison. Some people were jealous andpoisoned him. That's why he died. That's why he died. And he knewit, but then he accepted it. Just like Jesus knew he was goingto be crucified, hut he accepted it. No choice, no choice. WhenGod wants, you have no choice.
Q. Why does God want things like that?
M.To clean the sins, to clean the sins of the disciples.
Q. Couldn't He invent a positive way of cleaning thesins of the disciples ?
M.No, because this world is not positive. This is a world of thenegative power. Once you enter this world you have to do accordingto the law of karma. Otherwise you upset the kingdom of this physicalworld and it becomes chaotic. And everybody just does what theywant and they always get away with it. Killing, stealing, anddoing every bad thing, and nobody gets punished.
Q. As you know , Ramana Maharshi died of cancer, andalso Swami Shivananda. Did they also take the... ?
M.They did. That's only the last part of the play. There were moredramatic things going on while they were alive.
Q. What about Swami Vivikananda who didn't die likethat?
M.How did he die?
Q. I don't know . I didn't hear that he had any canceror leprosy or any thing like that.
M.But he had other things. Not all die from cancer or are crucified.No?
Q. Like Sri Aurobindo just had a samadhi and the Motheralso.
M.The inner suffering, the internal suffering and the mental sufferingis worse than physical suffering. I told you. But I told you ,there are also different levels of Masters. If you don't initiatedisciples, and don't take their karma, you don't have to suffer.Vivikananda wasn't a Master of their level.
Q. And Sri Aurobindo?
M.Don't ask me. Otherwise everybody would scold me. Masters aredifferent from teachers.
Q. But all of them have to go through meditation. Thatmeans the key for Masterhood is always meditation.
Jesus Christ Practiced Quan YinMethod Q. There are different meditations. For example, Jesus,what type of meditation did he do?
M.Quan Yin.
Q. How do you know?
M.I know.
Q. So Jesus also had the omniscient mind.
M.What?
Q. Jesus also had the omniscient mind, omniscient mind.
M.Yeah, yeah, yeah! He did.
Q. He did?
M.Oh please don't ask me'? If I tell you many truths It's okay youcan ask me. You ask intelligent questions, you continue. Otherpeople I don't want to hear. And for other people they have askedso many thousands of times already and they have abused Me manythousands of times, already, and I won't let them do it again.
Q. Like Jesus was with the Essenes. The Essenes werea Holy Order which were by the Dead Sea. Do you know about it?
M.Yes. He was from the Essenes' order, who were always vegetarians,since thousands of years, and they had a lineage of transmission,at that time.
Q. At that time?
M.They were the "White Brotherhood" who transmitted thelight and the sound. And at that time it was very difficult toenter that order. And you had to take vow of celibacy, and neverto transmit the teaching... outside openly. Anybody who enteredthat order must be introduced by some elder members and had topass through many years of tests before they could get the initiationof the final order. Then they could wear the white robe. And thisorder, they were fantastic. They were "love incarnate".And Jesus was the one who broke the promise of keeping silence.But it was by the order of the Most High, of course. He got innermessage. Otherwise nobody of His order had ever preached openlylike that before. First, because of the vow. Second, because ofthe danger. Therefore, after Jesus was crucified. Oh no, afterHe openly preached, and at that time or before His crucifixion,all of the "White Brotherhood" were watching Him closely,trying to protect Him, in many ways. But they couldn't help it.It was they who snatched Him from the cross, or from the cave.Anyway, I talked too much. I talk too much about unnecessary things.Ask some other question.
Q. Yes, tell me about the Egyptians.
M.Egyptians?
Q. Yeah, the Egyptians. Egyptians! Egyptians they werehigh initiates also.
M.Yes, because at that time they had a real living Master - Moses.When Moses was there, they were initiated, some of them were initiatedby him and kept the lineage, for a while. And at that time, thatwas why they believed they were the children of God. Just likeyou believe you are the children of God now, entering the sainthoodafter initiation. With a real living Master, anybody is a highinitiate; without, neither Egypt, nor Palestine nor anyone ishighly initiated. It's the inner power that opens, through theMaster. It's not the outside scriptures and rituals.
Q. Now tell me, why did Moses make these two mistakes?One was that he killed, remember, he killed those Egyptians, andthen he left for forty years to the desert.
M.That was before he was enlightened.
Q. Also, when he disobeyed the Father, when the Fathertold him about the water. He didn't have faith and he continueto....
M.Yeah, that's the human part of Moses.
Q. That's the human part of Moses.
M.There are many nonsense. For example, you know God.... Oh, thereis so much something nonsense in this scripture ... I don't wantto talk about it .... Is it okay? Can I talk?
Q. Yes.
M.For example we say, God made the world in seven days, six days.But then when He wanted to make the ten commandments it took fortydays and when ... and supposed to be very holy and untouchable,I mean respectable. But when Moses came down and saw everyonemaking merry, and drinking, and making silly, he broke them! Hebroke God's commandments, that took forty days to make. He brokethem, yeah! He broke the stones that inscribed God's commandments.It was supposed to have been written by God's hand. Is that notso? Okay. And then, when people repented, okay, He came and madethem again and this time quicker! If you asked Me again, we wouldbe in trouble. I might talk, and My talk might not please thechurch or anybody else. Sometimes I don't talk because I don'twant to offend people. No offense?
Q. No, they say you don't offend.
M.Okay, all of you are Christians. What shall I do?
Q. I am both. I'm Buddhist and Christian. Listen, andthen when God gets angry. How can a God get angry with his people?
M.This is an interpretation of humans. When we say God is angry,it means the law of karma is at work. And at least the Lord, theGod of Karma is angry, not the Almighty.
Q. Therefore Moses could not enter the promised land,only see it, for this reason. His own karma came upon him. Isthat it?
M.It is a kind of collective karma of the group, of the Egypt...of the Jewish people. Because God had helped them through manydisasters and showed them many miracles during their "exodus".Helped them, saved them, and gave them food and drink, and theynever had to worry about anything; but then they disobeyed God.You see? And they wanted something opposite to God's order. Theydisobeyed God's commandment. Therefore, what they refused, theycan not have it again. Or at least, it will have to bereconsidered after a long time. For example ,you go to see a doctor and you have emergency, and the doctorimmediately wants to take care of you. But then you look at thedoctor, and then you don't like it, and or you get cured, andyou are ungrateful, and you say, "Ah, I don't want to seeyou. I want this. I want that!" And the doctor, of course,cannot argue with you too long, he has to take care of other people.Then later when you feel sorry, you want it again. No! there issomeone else in the line and you have to wait. You refused it!The doctor is operating on someone else and he cannot just leavehim open, unfixed, and go and take care of you because you werebefore. You refused your appointment. And then you say the doctoris angry with me. It is not true.
Q. Now then tell me the fight between the Jews and theArabs that is still going on today. God said that he will punishthese people now because they disobeyed Him. He is going to dispersethese people upon the world and then He will have the Arabs fightwith them all the time until the end of the days.
M.Yeah, that was because they worshipped the jealous God. They worshippedthe Lord of the second world. They worshipped the Lord of Karmawhich is the second world, and that God punished them. If theyhad worshipped the Almighty, or if their Master Moses was a veryhigh order saint, they wouldn't have to go through this. Also,once you miss a chance, you have to go through suffering for many,many generations, many thousands of years, until the circle ends,and you are truly fed up with everything, and you truly repent.Then a Master will come and rescue you. One of our fellow practitioners,when he saw Me first time, he listened to the lecture and thenhe went home. He did not want to get initiation. He refused it.He thought it was not necessary. He thought he was a good man.He practices, and he just meditates off and on, and he does onlygood things, and he doesn't need a Master. And a woman, a womanMaster! "And the Buddhist scriptures say woman can not becomeBuddha", so he said. But he was a good practitioner, froma previous life. He had the merit of meeting the Buddha and ofbecoming enlightened. Apart from his big ego, he had his goodpart. So when he came to see the lecture, he felt, he knew, hesaw a vision, and he saw a lot of light and Buddhas there. Heknew that the so-called Master Ching Hai is not ordinary. He knewit, not that he did not know, but he refused it. He said thathe didn't need it, he alone was enough. He had good merit, andhe always made offerings to Buddha temples and charity, and everythingis okay, alone. So he went home. And then some of the discipleskind of pushed him. "Why don't you get initiation. It isa very good opportunity. You never know if you die without initiation,you never know when a Master will come, you know anything couldhappen. Go get initiation." And then he was kind of, howyou say, shaking in his own conviction.
Q. Could the Supreme God be manifested in a body?
M.He could be manifested in a body.
Q. Whatever body he wants? The different disciples ofdifferent religions when they pray to God and they are sincere,they are true devotes of the Lord, all of them. Can they reallycommunicate with that One of the fifth level?
M.Mostly they communicate with the Lord of Karma.
Q.The Lord of Karma is from the second level. The Jews call HimJehovah, but that wouldn't be the same as Yama the Lord of Death?
M.No. The Lord of Death is in the hell region, on the first plane.
The Lords of the Different Levels Q. So it seems like the Supreme God put different Lordsin charge different levels.
M.Yama works with Lord of Karma, okay.
Q. So they would work only until the end of our dayshere on earth.
M.Yes. They would work until the end of their position.
Q. Do you mean, in the kalpa like for example thereare four kalpas for the Hindus, in that sense?
M.Until the Lord ... until their karma is finished.
Q. That's serving, you mean, they're purifying?It is complicated. But when they are in that positionthey have God's Power to execute their work. Now the rishis andsaints, they can interfere with those laws, because in many storiesit tells you that they change those laws.
M.Yes. The Masters are above all these. Normally the Master doesnot use his Master position to suppress them. They just cooperatewith them and take the souls across their region; but never suppressesthem. Just like an advisor of the president. He has power overall the ministers and even the guards at that gate. But he wouldnever come and say, "Hey you, you are only the guard of thegate." He would not. You know. He would respect him and comein. Show his card, and wait for the guard to open the door, andallow him to come in. He wouldn't just drive through the gate,without talking to anybody, even though he is very familiar inthe palace. He respects every persons job. But of course whenhe wants to take somebody else, who normally would not be allowedin the palace, he can. And because of his presence, and how yousay,his guarantee, the guard would let anybody come in with himto the president. Otherwise, nobody can come into the president'spalace. Understand? Any ordinary person that goes with an influentialperson, to the presidential palace, can go through.
Q. You know, the Lord Buddha once said. He said, "IfI could take you all out of all this suffering and ignorance,I would do it immediately, but I can't."
M.Yes! Yes!
Q. So in a way. He is not omnipotent. But the Lord isomnipotent. So...
An Enlightened Master Saves Peoplewith Logic M.The Buddha is, the Buddha is omnipotent, but we have to use ourwill.
Q. Why can he not just liberate us all?
M.No! Then it's no fun.
Q. (Laughing) But there's more suffering than fun.
M.People like suffering. The Buddha and Jesus can not force peoplewhen they are not willing to follow. People have free will. That'sthe difficult part. And this is the negative world. They haveto work according to the to the order of this world. They cannot break everything. This is the kingdom of the Lord of Karma.If you enter this kingdom you have to work accordingly. The saintsare allow to come here to reason with people, to talk logicallyto people, and to entice them to come out by their own choice,and wisdom and will, not by magical power, not by hypnotism. That'swhy the work of the Master is difficult and full of suffering.Otherwise, anybody can be a Master, and one Master enough to takethe whole world up, empty. But it's not allow, because some peoplehave to be left here all the time, in order, so that other saintswill come out and make connection with heaven. Because as longas people are in this world other beings can evolve. You rememberthe Bible, the Old Testament?
Q. Yes.
M.God has commissioned man kind to rule over, to be king of theanimals. That means we have to take care of them, teach them,and help them evolve. And when the other animals come up to becomehumans, then there must be some other humans already more evolved,more wise, to teach those new born humans. Understand? There aretrees, rocks, minerals that have to evolve and become human beings.If they come up and nobody teaches them, then they go back tothe kingdom of minerals and trees again.
Q. How can a plant learn, for example, what is goodand bad?
M.They learn slowly, with many thousands of years experiences, byabsorbing the teaching from the energies, from the surroundingatmosphere. But their understanding and digestive system is slow.They have to be in such kind of atmosphere for many, many thousandsof years until they finally awaken and know "Ah! Yes! That'sit!" And then they will be given the human body. They areyoung souls. Just like it's easier to tell your bigger brotherand sister what to do, but it's difficult to explain to a youngerchildren, child what it is you want. It takes a long time forthem to understand you. It takes a long time for them to entercollege, and when they enter college, some professors must bethere to teach them. Not everybody can become a graduate and gooutside of the college, and nobody there to welcome the new comer,new students. Not everybody should become college teachers. Butthe primary school teacher is also important. No?! I talk toomuch. Don't you think it is enough? (Audience encourages Masterto talk more.)
